Assemble heroes, it's time to take down DIABLO III (Post Battle IDs Here)

[Boric]

Finally took down Inferno Belial earlier! The first two stages of him are pretty easy (particularly with the Trail of Cinders Rune... it just decimates enemies you can keep in one place) However his last stage can one-shot me with most any attack. So I finally changed up to a dual hand crossbow setup so I could attack and move away sooner. Took about 20 tries (I was literally on my last try based on on-hand gold, and gear breaking), and I finally took him down! Looking forward to working through Act 3 now

[Shadow Hado]

want to add me to the list?
Randum#1362

Sorry for the delay, added!

Finally took down Inferno Belial earlier! The first two stages of him are pretty easy (particularly with the Trail of Cinders Rune... it just decimates enemies you can keep in one place) However his last stage can one-shot me with most any attack. So I finally changed up to a dual hand crossbow setup so I could attack and move away sooner. Took about 20 tries (I was literally on my last try based on on-hand gold, and gear breaking), and I finally took him down! Looking forward to working through Act 3 now

That was pretty much the first rune I wanted to try out with my DH once I played 1.04, lol. Speaking of that, I STILL haven't played (haven't played games much at all in the past 3 1/2 weeks,) but I'm going to make a very conscious effort to get some playtime in this weekend. Even though I feel it's much less of an achievement now, I still want to solo-clear Inferno. Oh, and of course I want it happen on my DH, just because it's so much harder to do than on many of the other classes.

But yeah, congrats on Belial! When I did my Hell playthrough on my DH, he could one-shot me too, because I refused to buy new gear til I hit lvl 60. If I had to guess, I'd say it took me somewhere in the realm of 20-30 tries as well. I just tried to learn to dodge his "rage explosions" as perfectly as possible, and I would only use Discipline to pop SS if I got caught on an explosion, or was in range of his two-handed attack. I got really good at the explosions, so then I would intentionally stay put while shooting him during his fist attacks, and just use SS during those. I can only imagine it being much tougher on Inferno, especially if he gets enraged: I heard it's pretty much impossible to dodge the explosions if his enrage timer goes off.

[Ken]

Yeah, I heard that they're fixing the "bug" (nerf-IMO) of Trail of Cinders doing 1500% damage, and rolling it back to 300%. If it's overpowered by mistake, why such a drastic drop??? Maybe %600 at least? Sheesh.

[Shadow Hado]

Yeah, I heard that they're fixing the "bug" (nerf-IMO) of Trail of Cinders doing 1500% damage, and rolling it back to 300%. If it's overpowered by mistake, why such a drastic drop??? Maybe %600 at least? Sheesh.

Yeah, I just read about that on Friday I think, and I'm going to try to play today just to see how good it was before it's fixed with the next patch, whenever that is. When I first read about the fix, I had the same reaction as you, but as they kinda said in their reply, the skill was never meant to be used that way. I mean... I totally understand the idea of "so what if it wasn't meant to be used that way," and trying to create original builds, testing out new skills/runes, etc... but I think that even at 600% (200% per second,) you'd be practically DOUBLING (or more) a Demon Hunter's dps. And, after I learned how the skill worked, I (for once) totally believe that they had always intended it to be 300% over 3 seconds.

So to answer your question, "if it's overpowered by mistake, why such a drastic drop?" I think it's because you're looking at it like a nerf, like if the skill was scaled to 1500% over 3 seconds intentionally, and they had to dial it back after they found out that it was too good. However in this case, they only ever meant it to reach 300% over 3 seconds, but it accidentally reached 1500% over 3 seconds, so they're just setting it to what they had originally intended it to be in Patch 1.04.

The way the skill sits right now, you can Vault and run around enemies at one of, if not THE fastest movement speed(s) in the entire game... while dealing a little more than 3x your normal DPS. And that's without even firing a single shot. Throw on the fact that there are ways to have practically infinite Discipline... Yeah. Now, I know all of that doesn't take critical hits and such into account; I'm just trying to keep it simple.

Also, I think the other danger of leaving the skill at something like 600% over 3 sec., is that it would turn the class into a melee class. People would argue that "you can still play it as a ranged class, this just gives us more options!" That's kinda true, but as we all know, once there is a "best build" for a class, people don't try anything else. With that said, I honestly believe that at 600% over 3 sec., melee DH could still possibly be that "best build."

[Shadow Hado]

Hey! I finally got a chance to play a little bit of Patch 1.04! I only played for about an hour last night before passing out while I was in town, rofl. ><

Anywho, all I did was clear a few maps, and in that hour or so, I'm pretty sure I had to make 3 trips back to town (with the 3rd being when I fell asleep) to salvage blues and yellows. I know i saw a couple more yellows than I was used to seeing, but I saw WAY more blues than I used to. I didn't really pay attention to the ilvl of the rares I got, but I did find a couple of what I thought could be decent upgrades for my Barb/Wiz/WD, which are still self-found only.

That being said, I also finally got to test out the current version of Vault / Trail of Cinder on my Demon Hunter, and only one word came to mind: broken. I mean, I know I was only in Act 1, but other than a pack of Waller / Shielding / Fire Chain / Something Else that took me a little bit longer because of the walls blocking my shots (I actually NEVER saw their Shielding go up, which I thought was odd,) there wasn't a single Champion or Elite Pack that took me more than like 5-10 seconds. It was pretty insane. In one of the 2 dungeons in the Forest (the slightly bigger one with the "circle path" around the giant pit and the "downstairs area,") I intentionally used only Vault to clear the whole thing just to see how long it would take... and the answer was "less than a minute." Most Elites and Champions I fought during the hour simply died within a couple of seconds by me Vaulting past them, without needing to even fire any shots at them. The craziest part, is that I don't even have that high of dps currently, since I hadn't actually played the game in about 2 months or so. Just unreal.

So, I have to say that, absolutely without a doubt, Trail of Cinders definitely needs to be tuned WAY down, and that I do think that even 600% Weapon Damage / 3 seconds (as Ken mentioned) would still be too much damage. I say this not because 600% is a lot (although it kind of is,) but because 1200% in just a few seconds by Vaulting "there and back" is still way too much damage. All of this points to something lower, and I think them fixing the bug so that it is at the 300% / 3 seconds that they wanted is going to be just fine.

Oh, and after rereading my "pre-experiencing 1.04 Trail of Cinders" post, I have to change the bit i mentioned about Melee DHpossinly being "THE build" if it were still 600% / 3 sec. Not because I don't think it would work, but because a ranged build with a high-damage Trail of Cinders is likely WAY more powerful than ANY melee build. So no, it wouldn't turn it into a melee class at all; it would just continue to allow the current cookie cutter DH build to be insanely powerful.

Gonna try and play some more this evening since I really need to relax after everything that's happened in the past 24 hours, and hopefully I can give some other skills a try.

[Boric]

The extra broken thing is that if you only use Trail of Cinders... you never crit... so you're hitting with full sharpshooter DPS all day long

So let's see... if your sharpshooter DPS is 50k, then (one) Trail of Cinders is hitting for 250k DPS(500% of your DPS), and if you start stacking it by going back and forth, you're nearing 1 million DPS pretty quick (while Discipline lasts) with a base of 50k. Considering Inferno Diablo has around 25million HP... we're talking being able to wipe out 20% of his health in less than 10 seconds... And that's with very average DPS gear.


As for me... I'm closing in on Paragon Level 5. Still very underpowered for Act 3. Co-oped with a Paragon 14 friend just to take down Azmodan. And then solo'd Iskatu to open Act 4 after a few tries.

Gonna try to get my Attack Speed and Crit Damage back up with my next upgrades.

Stats currently:
22k DPS (w/o sharpshooter)
3300 Armor
~550 All Resist
~1350 Life on Hit
60 Max Discipline

[Ken]

Since hitting Act III, ToC is still overpowered, but not nearly as much as in Act I & II. I think 600% would be perfect, and it should use your base DPS, not the inflated Sharpshooter DPS, agreed. That would make it viable in Act III & Act IV. It only lasts for 3 seconds, and you aren't invulnerable when using it. All it takes is one fast mob to make it worthless as a tactic. I think anything less than 600% would make it less useful than Jagged Spikes, which are far more effective for mob control, and even easier to use. If they nerf it to 300%, I hope they at least make it last longer than 3 seconds, or I'll dump it in a heartbeat as useless.

[Shadow Hado]

The extra broken thing is that if you only use Trail of Cinders... you never crit... so you're hitting with full sharpshooter DPS all day long

So let's see... if your sharpshooter DPS is 50k, then (one) Trail of Cinders is hitting for 250k DPS(500% of your DPS), and if you start stacking it by going back and forth, you're nearing 1 million DPS pretty quick (while Discipline lasts) with a base of 50k. Considering Inferno Diablo has around 25million HP... we're talking being able to wipe out 20% of his health in less than 10 seconds... And that's with very average DPS gear.


As for me... I'm closing in on Paragon Level 5. Still very underpowered for Act 3. Co-oped with a Paragon 14 friend just to take down Azmodan. And then solo'd Iskatu to open Act 4 after a few tries.

Gonna try to get my Attack Speed and Crit Damage back up with my next upgrades.

Stats currently:
22k DPS (w/o sharpshooter)
3300 Armor
~550 All Resist
~1350 Life on Hit
60 Max Discipline

Are you sure Trail of Cinders works that way? The reason your dps shows the higher number isn't because that's how much you'll hit for, it's because your guaranteed a crit hit, and that crit hit will have that damage. If Sharpshooter actually did increase your dps slowly until you got a crit hit, that would be the most broken thing I've ever seen. EVER.

Also, I believe the way you figure your damage for Trail of Cinders, is to take your base (without SS on,) and then you'd have to do the math to remove your Crit Chance and Crit Damage from your base. The new number you get from all this would be your true dps when not landing a critical hit. So even though my base might say like 70k or something (I actually have no clue what it says,) that 70k is factoring in my Crit Chance and Crit Damage Increase from my gear and Passives. My regular hit is probably somewhere closer to 15-25k, tops. Let's use the average: 20k. So that means that Trail of Cinder does 20k x 5 = 100k per second, for 3 seconds. That's 300k damage over 3 seconds for a skill that has no cooldown, and depending on your gear, can be repeated roughly 4-7 times (I know that translates to 32-56 Discipline, but you have to factor in the amount of time that passes during and in between Vaults, because you will be regenerating Discipline.) For people who have the Legacy Natalya's set, they will almost have infinite Discipline for Vaulting to and fro.

Oh, I almost forgot! For Diablo, I think he takes less damage from fire attacks. Not 100% sure though.

Personally, I'm probably somewhere around... I dunno, prolly like Paragon Level 0.20? Lol I just messed around for a bit in A1, but I might try and clear out the rest of A2 solo just so I have an A3 waypoint before Trail of Cinders gets fixed. I guess the fix is coming in 1.05, but apparently that's still a little ways off.

As for your stats... well to be honest, I've been out of the game for so long that I've forgotten what I was shooting for, lol. However, I do at least recognize many good things in your stats. I'm guessing that you are probably low-ish on DEX? I'm just guessing based on your current DPS.

That's all for now!

~~Nate

[Boric]

Are you sure Trail of Cinders works that way? The reason your dps shows the higher number isn't because that's how much you'll hit for, it's because your guaranteed a crit hit, and that crit hit will have that damage. If Sharpshooter actually did increase your dps slowly until you got a crit hit, that would be the most broken thing I've ever seen. EVER.

Also, I believe the way you figure your damage for Trail of Cinders, is to take your base (without SS on,) and then you'd have to do the math to remove your Crit Chance and Crit Damage from your base. The new number you get from all this would be your true dps when not landing a critical hit. So even though my base might say like 70k or something (I actually have no clue what it says,) that 70k is factoring in my Crit Chance and Crit Damage Increase from my gear and Passives. My regular hit is probably somewhere closer to 15-25k, tops. Let's use the average: 20k. So that means that Trail of Cinder does 20k x 5 = 100k per second, for 3 seconds. That's 300k damage over 3 seconds for a skill that has no cooldown, and depending on your gear, can be repeated roughly 4-7 times (I know that translates to 32-56 Discipline, but you have to factor in the amount of time that passes during and in between Vaults, because you will be regenerating Discipline.) For people who have the Legacy Natalya's set, they will almost have infinite Discipline for Vaulting to and fro.

Oh, I almost forgot! For Diablo, I think he takes less damage from fire attacks. Not 100% sure though.

Personally, I'm probably somewhere around... I dunno, prolly like Paragon Level 0.20? Lol I just messed around for a bit in A1, but I might try and clear out the rest of A2 solo just so I have an A3 waypoint before Trail of Cinders gets fixed. I guess the fix is coming in 1.05, but apparently that's still a little ways off.

As for your stats... well to be honest, I've been out of the game for so long that I've forgotten what I was shooting for, lol. However, I do at least recognize many good things in your stats. I'm guessing that you are probably low-ish on DEX? I'm just guessing based on your current DPS.

That's all for now!

~~Nate

I can't confirm the validity at this time, but I'm pretty sure I've seen screenshots in the past week with sharpshooter on and off comparing the damage, and it was quite obvious.

Either way, it is overpowered... to me after it gets nerfed back to where it should be, I imagine it'll just be another thing to trail behind me like Caltrops to damage enemies as they try to come towards me and I'm getting away.

[Shadow Hado]

I can't confirm the validity at this time, but I'm pretty sure I've seen screenshots in the past week with sharpshooter on and off comparing the damage, and it was quite obvious.

Either way, it is overpowered... to me after it gets nerfed back to where it should be, I imagine it'll just be another thing to trail behind me like Caltrops to damage enemies as they try to come towards me and I'm getting away.

Yeah I haven't really decided what I will do at that point; I don't know if I will keep ToC or switch back to Tumble for the reduced Discipline cost. I REALLY want to get some +Discipline gear so that I'm AT LEAST up to 50, but I'd like to be at 60, something you've got covered already.

As for other stats... I really haven't decided yet. I mean, I thought about just doing the high Armor + high All Resist like most people recommend, but I kinda want to focus just on pure damage and be a true glass cannon, lol. I mean, I know it'll be a LOOOONNNNNG time, lots of grinding, looting, and LOTS of gold before I can do either route properly, but I'm trying to decide now because as soon as I get my first piece of gear going in either direction, if I change my mind later, it's going to be so expensive that I'd probably just switch characters, lol.

Oh and by the way! The world got its first Paragon Level 100 earlier today. I think it was roughly 5 hours ago or so? Just friggin' nuts. I didn't get to see it or anything, but the way people were explaining how fast he kills everything, I'm DEFINITELY going to watch some of the video from his stream. You can check out his stream and videos here.

Laters!

~~Nate